Catch Him if You Can
March came from nothing. Now, he’s the 1%. He made his fortune in oil and cryptocurrency. He’s sweet, handsome and charming. It’s hard to believe he’s still single. Only, it isn’t. Because March isn’t real. He’s a border-hopping Canadian con artist who’s tricked women and men out of over a million dollars. He thought he was untouchable, but now he’s messed with the wrong women. From Pink Moon Studio, this is Catch Him if You Can. The story of Marcel Vautour, his survivors' real time crusade to catch him, and the broken legal system that’s allowed him to get away for over 20 years – told in 7 parts. Written and produced by Emilia King and Maggie Reid. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @catchhimpod
Catch Him if You Can
Kym
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In spring 2018, life was putting Kym Nicholson, a registered nurse from British Columbia, through the ringer. She decides to travel across Canada by train to visit family and clear her head. On the train she meets a man named Andre. He’s wealthy, flirty, fun and seems like the perfect distraction from her troubles. New episodes launching every two weeks! Ep 3 coming April 12th!
You can find the show at https://frequencypodcastnetwork.com/
For more information and to send tips go to
You're listening to a Frequency Podcast Network production.
SPEAKER_06March Votour is the 1%. He made his fortune in oil and cryptocurrency. He's handsome, charming, and has a heart of gold. It's hard to believe he's still single, only it isn't. Because March isn't real. He's a serial grifter and romance con artist who's tricked women and men across Canada, the US, Vietnam, and the Czech Republic out of over a million dollars. And that's just what we know of. His trail of destruction has led to heartbreak, bankruptcies, foreclosures, and even PTSD.
SPEAKER_02How could you not be a psychopath? How could you ruin so many people's lives and not care and walk away? It's dark evil.
SPEAKER_09Romance fraud, business fraud, investment fraud, medical fraud.
SPEAKER_00You know, they say a really good liar puts some truths in there to make it easier and make the story more believable because he has conviction about that because he knows it's true.
SPEAKER_09He goes by Marcel, he goes by Mark with an M-A-R-C, an M-A-R-K. He goes by Andre, he also goes by Dre. We know him to go by Andy, we know him to go by Martin. We know him to go by March. I think he has a character that he's built for each one of them.
SPEAKER_05He doesn't work. This is his job. He is good at what he does. Then you know what? Problem. You're good at what you do. But we're we're good at what we do too.
SPEAKER_06And we're gonna get you. My name is Amelia King, and this is Catch Em If You Can. In episode one, you heard the story of Andrea Speranza, a fire captain and founder of a nonprofit called Camp Courage. In the fall of 2018, when Andrea realized Marcel Vautour had taken her money, she searched for him online. Little did she know that earlier that same year, Marcel was on the west coast of Canada spitting a similar web of lies.
SPEAKER_02I researched his new name and I came across a Facebook account. I looked down, oh my god, that's a picture that he showed me. And then I looked down and it said, Beware, this man isn't who he claims to be. And I was like, oh my god. And uh I messengered that person, another victim, who lost more money than me, and I spoke to her.
SPEAKER_09I woke up at six o'clock in the morning, sobbing. Like I woke up from a dream and I knew what had happened. I felt so dumb. I was like, what the hell's wrong with me? This is not my character, none of it's my character. Um, like stepping out from the marriage or anything like that. That's that's not who I am.
SPEAKER_06Chapter 2, Kim. It was late March 2018, and life was really putting 40-something Kim Nicholson through the ringer. She's dirty blonde and sharp, with an incredible memory for the tiniest of details. She has steely blue eyes that give off an intensity in their gaze. She was always health conscious and athletic, but self-care had fallen to the bottom of her list. Things were unsettled. Kim was burnt out. She had been a caretaker her whole life. She got her first job at 10, and by 16, she was the assistant manager of a restaurant, helping with household expenses.
SPEAKER_09They relied on me. At times it felt stressful and like there was a lot of weight on my shoulders, and I felt that my entire life.
SPEAKER_06It came as no surprise when Kim decided to become a registered nurse. She lived in Victoria, British Columbia with her husband. They met in 2004 and married in 2011. Later that same year, he was in a horrible accident and needed intense rehabilitation.
SPEAKER_09And I was the one that was working so financially. I took care of us. There was a huge emotional and psychological component that existed for the whole four years. And of course, in the beginning, there was the physical component of healing and recovering at home. I took that role on because it was a normal pattern for me to fall into because I'd been like that my whole life. And the the work that I do within nursing, it's about trying to get people well.
SPEAKER_06Playing the caretaker role to everyone else took its toll on Kim and she began to overlook her own needs.
SPEAKER_09It was all about him and getting him recovered. As I'd always been a really healthy eater and exercised and really took care of my health. My health had kind of fallen off. I wasn't really happy with who I was. I didn't know who I was because it didn't seem like it was me, the me that I knew.
SPEAKER_06Once her husband recovered, she needed to make some changes. She was unhappy with her job, and all the years of caretaking had put a strain on her marriage. There was little romance, and Kim didn't feel desired by him. She also found out that her husband had been keeping some things from her. There was tension and fighting, and a sense that something was fundamentally broken in her relationship.
SPEAKER_09And so I decided, you know, maybe it's time for me to go back to school and sort of rediscover who I was, and maybe I needed to reinvent myself, but I needed to go and explore what was really there for myself.
SPEAKER_06Kim was determined to translate her medical knowledge into a new career in health and wellness coaching. She started taking classes.
SPEAKER_09And I had just recently lost a cousin, and I couldn't make it back for the funeral. It was very short notice. I told my aunt and uncle I'd come out in the spring to see them.
SPEAKER_06This brings us to late March 2018. It had been a year since her cousin passed. Kim decided to deliver on her promise to visit her family in St. Catharines, Ontario. She was born in Ontario and her brothers still live there, so it always felt like a second home. She isn't much of a flyer though, so she books a via rail trip from Vancouver to Toronto. The train ride is four nights, five days, almost five thousand kilometers, and promises a backdrop of the majestic Rockies, gentle prairies, rugged lake country, and picturesque towns.
SPEAKER_09Just crying like out of nowhere. And I was kind of embarrassed because there's all these people around me. So I thought, well, that's interesting. Like, what is it? Just a release that I actually can, you know, have a time for myself. Didn't quite understand it.
SPEAKER_06Normally, Kim's a rock, but for the first time in a long time, she lets herself feel her feelings. It's cathartic. Like she's physically expelling years worth of baggage. At around 8 p.m. in Vancouver, she boards her train. Welcome, Miss Nicholson.
SPEAKER_08Ah, Miss Nicholson, welcome aboard your train to Toronto. We're doing Prosecco and appetizers in the dining lounge.
SPEAKER_06I hope you'll join us. That sounds perfect. If you've never taken a cross-province via rail trip, let me paint a picture for you. Cajun-spiced veal chop, Canadian lake trout, pansear ducks stuffed portobello caps, we're talking a culinary adventure with a view of Canada's diverse landscape. It feels more like a cruise. And it's pricey, more expensive than a plane ticket. So after checking in, Kim finds her berth. That's via RailSpeak for a kind of shared bedroom. And after that, she makes her way to the lounge. The mood is bright and positive. That mix of excitement and anticipation you have before a big adventure. People are eating, drinking, and chatting. This is nice, huh? Definitely. I'm Kathy. Kim, nice to meet you. I could get used to this. Kathy is in her 60s and full of life. She and Kim hit it off immediately. Soon enough, the two women are exchanging stories.
SPEAKER_01We just kind of gravitated toward each other, I guess because there were so many other folks on the train that were a lot older. We just got to know each other and there was a lot of chit-chat. She also was helping me. We were talking about a lot of things about menopause and all that the health issues that go along with that. And she knew a lot about it. Just very informal. She eventually told me about her situation that she was in and why she was going to Ontario and that her marriage was a bit rocky.
SPEAKER_06Kim and Kathy make a plan to meet up early for breakfast next morning. As they're eating and chatting, the train is just getting into Edmonton. There's a rush of new people in the breakfast car. Kim's the observant type. She takes inventory of all the new faces. She notices a man in his forties and a young redheaded woman laughing and speaking French in the corner. She thinks nothing of it. After breakfast, Kim goes back to her room to study.
SPEAKER_07Knock knock, how goes the studying? Ah, it goes. You've gotta come back there with me. There's so many new people, Kim. And they've got muffins and coffee and tea, and you can order a drink. Ah, come with me. It'll be good for you. I really should. After dinner, they have live music and drinks. You could probably use a glass of wine after all that studying. That does sound nice. See you at eight. See you then.
SPEAKER_06Kim and Kathy meet up in the cart, and the atmosphere is lively. They're sitting across from each other, and Kim ends up in a conversation with someone else. The seat next to Kathy is empty. The 40-ish-year-old man Kim noticed at breakfast takes a seat next to her. He's dressed casually, but well. He has a pair of newbeats headphones around his neck and a crisp pair of Timberland boots. He's carrying a laptop bag with him.
SPEAKER_03Cheers!
SPEAKER_06Cheers to you.
SPEAKER_03Andre, nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_07Kathy, nice to meet you too.
SPEAKER_03Is that your friend over there?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, we met last night. That's Kim. We've been chatting. Why?
SPEAKER_03Does she work at a bank? I think I know her. She looks so familiar.
SPEAKER_07Why don't you go ask her yourself? Andre here was just asking me if you work at a bank. No, I do not. I'm a nurse.
SPEAKER_03I've got to know you from somewhere, Kim. You look like someone I know. Where are you from? BC. Oh, I've spent a lot of time in BC. Alright, why don't we all figure this out over a round of drinks? I'm buying.
SPEAKER_07Oh, that's a lot of cash you got there. I would be careful.
SPEAKER_03I'm not worried. What are you both having?
SPEAKER_07Huh? You don't have to convince me. Rum and Coke. I'll have another red. Thanks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. One rum and coke, a crown in Coke, and red wine. You got it, my man. Thank you, Mr. Bartender.
SPEAKER_08You travel the train a lot?
SPEAKER_03All the time. And the staff know me. I like it better than flying. Here we are. One rum and coke, one crown in Coke, and a glass of Merlot. I'd like to propose a toast. To new friends. To new new friends.
SPEAKER_08So, what do you do, Andre?
SPEAKER_03I'm an oil guy. I do a lot of work in South Asia, Thailand, Indonesia. I'm actually just on the leave from a job in Vietnam. I'll be heading back soon, but first, I'm stopping in Toronto for a canoe trip.
SPEAKER_07What kind of an oil guy?
SPEAKER_03An underwater ROV pilot. We're only eight in the world.
SPEAKER_08That's really interesting. What was the training like for that? Kim's doing some training right now herself. Yeah, for health and wellness coaching. It's always been a dream of mine. I'm already a nurse, but I'm trying to find a way to merge them together.
SPEAKER_03Very impressive. It's important to keep improving yourself. But yeah, the ROV training was really intense. You're piloting a drone underwater and then making it do very tiny detail moves. They must be great on something like that. Uh, 30k a month.
SPEAKER_07Shit. That's more than I thought.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm pretty lucky. Hard to believe sometimes. I definitely didn't come from money, that's for sure. I've just learned to be very strategic. Beauty is, I don't really have to work now. I do a lot of investing. Bitcoin, cannabis, that kind of stuff. Smart. My ex-wife wouldn't agree. But I try. I mean, I've been on a self-betterment journey since my twenties.
SPEAKER_07Oh?
SPEAKER_03You ladies want to hear a crazy story? Shoot! Growing up, my parents were addicts. They always left me and my sibling home alone to score. So naturally, I started to go down that path myself, you know? Got in with the wrong crowd. It was a hard life. I did some crazy shit in my twenties. A lot of selling drugs and that. One day I was at the airport, about to take a flight, and I met this man that changed my life. Cal. He made me see life differently, you know? Anyway, Cal worked on the rigs in Alberta, and he told me I could too. He showed me that I had the power, that I'm in control. The rest, as they say, is history. Well, my point is you can do anything and be anything you want. Keep doing you, Kim.
SPEAKER_06The three of them talk for a little while longer before calling it a night. The next morning, Kathy and Kim meet up for breakfast and are chatting with a well-read gentleman, as Kathy describes him in his 80s.
SPEAKER_04I'm glad you've decided to invest in yourself, Kim. You know, the ancient philosopher Aristotle said that the goal for all humans is happiness. But to do that, they must understand their essence. It sounds like you're on the right path. Life is too short.
SPEAKER_08I'm realizing that more and more every day.
SPEAKER_04On that note, have a wonderful day, you two.
SPEAKER_08You as well. Bye. Arriving in Winnipeg. Arrivé at Winnipeg.
SPEAKER_07Oh, hi Andre.
SPEAKER_03Bon matin, ladies.
SPEAKER_08Morning.
SPEAKER_03I hope I didn't interrupt anything.
SPEAKER_08Oh no. We were just having a philosophical chat. On the nature of happiness.
SPEAKER_03Happiness, huh?
SPEAKER_08Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Happiness for me has been one with Mother Nature.
SPEAKER_08Oh yeah? That's right. You mentioned you're going on a canoe trip.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I'm going up canoeing and portaging with a First Nations guide. I sent up my gears already. He's organizing the whole thing. Cost a pretty penny. Six thousand just for the deposit. Worth it though. It's going to be spectacular.
SPEAKER_08I love nature too.
SPEAKER_03You'd love this experience then. Pure wilderness. The sounds of birds, the trees blowing in the wind. It's perfection.
SPEAKER_07That sounds wonderful.
SPEAKER_08It really does. Hey, if you're taking off from Toronto, what were you doing in Alberta?
SPEAKER_03Officially beginning a new chapter, I guess you can say. Just sold the Bath property I shared with my ex. I've been renting it out, but I'm a terrible landlord. Too generous, my agent says. It's crazy how property values have increased. Three mil. This was it? Very nice. Picture from better times.
SPEAKER_07Is that a 718 boxster you guys are sitting in?
SPEAKER_03Good eye, yeah. That's our baby. Well, was. I let her keep it easier.
SPEAKER_08I hear that. Sometimes it's easier to just let go.
SPEAKER_03Were you married?
SPEAKER_08Am Mary. But I'm not sure for how long. We're going through some serious stuff.
SPEAKER_03Hence the new courses.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I just need to focus on myself for once.
SPEAKER_03Good for you.
SPEAKER_08Why'd you and your explod up, if you don't mind me asking?
SPEAKER_03No, it's okay. Uh I loved her for 14 years. I did uh everything for her. I even put her through dentistry school. But in the end, her love of alcohol was stronger than her love for me. It's better this way. Right now, I just want to travel and work when I want, you know, and be open to whatever comes my way. I know it might sound nuts, but I actually just bought a sailboat.
SPEAKER_06The next time Kim and Kathy meet Andre, it's in the special cart for drinks. He's with the young redhead. Her name is Victoria, and she doesn't speak much English.
SPEAKER_03Victoria wants to know what life is like in Vietnam.
SPEAKER_07Well, what's it like?
SPEAKER_03So okay. The men are much smaller, like shorter and lighter. My nickname over there is get this March. Because they say whenever I walk back and forth, my footsteps are heavy, like a soldier. We and the women.
SPEAKER_08Oh my god. What about the women?
SPEAKER_03They are very uh um generous. All the women I dated, they'll do anything, and they're good at it too. Good at what? Have you watched Fifty Shades of Grey?
SPEAKER_08Uh wee fifty shades six each. Uh, I've seen it. Same.
SPEAKER_03Well, imagine like that. All joking aside, the truth is there's a lot of women out there who are prostitutes because there's no work. So when I'm down there, they'll approach me because they know I have money, and I just I can't do that, you know? Never wouldn't feel right. So I give them money so they can buy shoes for their kids or food or clothes. I always do that when I'm there. A decent man for once. Thanks. Holy shit. This girl just won't leave me alone. Who? Someone I met at the casino in Edmonton. I just don't get it. Why would you want to move that fast? What do I tell her?
SPEAKER_08Just tell her the truth. Like, we had a great time, but I don't see anything serious moving forward.
SPEAKER_03You're right. I'll just tell her that. Man, this shit stresses me out.
SPEAKER_08Is that a vaporizer? You're gonna get in trouble.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Are you scared?
SPEAKER_08I've seen people get kicked off for that.
SPEAKER_04Alright, gang. Your next round of drinks. Is that a vape? You know better than that.
SPEAKER_03Do I? Okay, I'll put it away. Just one more pull. You're bad. Look, it's your old philosopher friend. He can't seem to keep his eyes off of you. Which I totally understand. Sir, you want to screw her, don't you?
SPEAKER_07Oh my god, I can't believe you just said that. I think he's leaving.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's true. He's into Kim. I'm taking your advice about just being honest. We'd all be so much better off if we were just more honest with each other.
SPEAKER_08Oh yeah?
SPEAKER_03Definitely. Here's some honesty, Kim. Did anyone ever tell you that you have beautiful eyes? Like objectively?
SPEAKER_08Oh. Ears aren't so bad either.
SPEAKER_03You're a beautiful woman. Inside and out.
SPEAKER_06Here's the real Kathy again.
SPEAKER_01It started to become very clear to me, without again, at that time, not knowing what he was about, that he was trying to pick her up. It became very clear that he was interested in her and whatever was going to happen after everybody got to Toronto. You could just tell because all of a sudden he turned very flirty and talked about sex a lot.
SPEAKER_06The conversation is flowing. It's silly and naughty and fun. Kim goes to bed that night feeling light for the first time in a long time. The next time they all see each other is at Union Station in Toronto.
SPEAKER_09I thought he was an interesting person. And I think he had a lot of uh he was very charming and he was very charismatic, and he had an interesting life. At the end, all of us exchanged phone numbers and emails away of Contacting each other because we had such a great time.
SPEAKER_03Here, I'll move your suitcases down for you.
SPEAKER_08Thanks, Andre. You didn't have to do that.
SPEAKER_03I know, but I wanted to.
SPEAKER_08Alright, my brother's parked over there.
SPEAKER_03Just hang with Kathy. I'll go bring your suitcase to him.
SPEAKER_07Well, he's clearly smitten.
SPEAKER_08You think? Does a fish swim? We're just friends.
SPEAKER_07Oh, I know, I know, I know. He makes friends with everybody. He's smoking a ciggy with your brother.
SPEAKER_08He's a charmer, alright. Kathy, it was so great to meet you. I haven't laughed like this in a long time.
SPEAKER_07It was lovely, hon. You hang in there, okay? And don't feel guilty for a second doing things for yourself. Enjoy your family and send your aunt my condolences. Let's keep in touch, okay? We have each other's numbers.
SPEAKER_08Of course. You enjoy your family too, and have a safe trip to Ottawa. I see you've met my brother.
SPEAKER_03Alright, you guys. Have a safe drive.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, man. Enjoy your canoe trip.
SPEAKER_03Thanks. Kim, it was really amazing meeting you. Take care of yourself, okay? Big things are coming your way.
SPEAKER_08You take care too. Nice meeting you, Train Buddy.
SPEAKER_03Kathy, she's gone.
SPEAKER_07You really like her.
SPEAKER_03What if I never see her again?
SPEAKER_07If it's meant to be, you will. Now, you. Be safe in those rivers, you hear?
SPEAKER_03I will. And you don't be a stranger.
SPEAKER_06I won't, hon. Kim and her brother drive up to St. Catharines and get settled for the night. The next morning, Kim receives a text.
SPEAKER_03Hey Kim. It's your train buddy. How are you?
SPEAKER_08I'm good. Just had breakfast. How about you? Are you on the river yet?
SPEAKER_03No. Unfortunately. The crazy ice storm. The guide says it's too dangerous. We need to delay it.
SPEAKER_08What are you doing instead?
SPEAKER_03I am in Niagara Falls.
SPEAKER_08Really? I'm in St. Catharines. What brings you to the falls?
SPEAKER_03Opportunity. LOL. Never been. We should meet up for a coffee.
SPEAKER_08I'll be at the falls on Tuesday, meeting my family for dinner.
SPEAKER_03That is perfect.
SPEAKER_06Tuesday comes and Kim and Andre grab some Tim Hortons and go for a walk around the falls and then go into the little shops. The conversation is effortless. Andre is funny and sweet, and Kim feels drawn in. They're laughing and goofing around like a couple of teenagers. All of a sudden, they hear a thud.
SPEAKER_03Did you just drop something?
SPEAKER_06No. You?
SPEAKER_03I don't think so.
SPEAKER_06They walk around some more, and suddenly Andre's face turns red. He starts feeling his pockets.
SPEAKER_03What's wrong? I think I lost my wallet. Remember that sound? I bet I dropped my wallet. Are you sure? Did you check all of your pockets? Oh my god. I have seven fucking thousand dollars in there. And all my damn plastic, my ID, holy shit!
SPEAKER_08Okay, breathe. Let's backtrack our steps.
SPEAKER_03Good idea. I'll call the police and report it too. Just give me a sec. Yes. Hi. I'd like to report a missing wallet.
SPEAKER_06They walk back to where they started and stop in all the shops along the way, speaking to store employees just in case the wallet somehow got lost while they were inside. They even check garbage cans and recycling bins. Nothing. Kim feels terrible about Andre's predicament. She's got a booking at a nearby hotel for her niece's dance competition. She figures she might have some leeway with hotel management to book Andre into a separate room for a discounted rate. They hop into her rental car to go to the hotel. Kim ends up scoring an awesome deal for Andre's room. They meet back up the next day and are inseparable for the next 48 hours.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for covering everything for these last few days. I really appreciated Kim. I'm going to sort out my cards and I'm also going to check on the status of that canoe trip. This has been really fun. I'm going to miss you.
SPEAKER_08You're gonna miss me? You barely know me.
SPEAKER_03It definitely doesn't feel that way. Remember the first time I laid eyes on you? I thought I already knew you.
SPEAKER_08How are you gonna pay for anything while you're figuring things out?
SPEAKER_03Well, I'm uh I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_08I'm happy to loan you 500 bucks.
SPEAKER_03Actually? Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Text me your Swift code and bank info, and once I get things sorted out, my accountant Mark will transfer what I owe you from my Singapore account.
SPEAKER_06Andre leaves for Toronto, and Kim spends some more time with her family. A few hours after they separate, she receives a sweet text from him.
SPEAKER_03I really enjoyed my time with you. You're a beautiful and interesting person. I know you're having a tough time in your marriage, and I'd like to be there for you. I know you're probably not ready for anything more than friendship, but please know you're special. And I see you. I see you, Kim. Signed, your crazy train buddy.
SPEAKER_06Kim feels flattered, and she hasn't felt appreciated by a man in a long time. She and Andre keep texting back and forth. Then something unexpected happens. It's Saturday night, the last night of Kim's niece's dance competition.
SPEAKER_09We had a four-hour gap between their next dance. So my brother and I went and had a bite to eat. And I said to my brother, let's go to the casino. And I never say that. And my brother's like, What? And I'm like, I'll give you 20 bucks. Let's just go and waste some time and then we can go for a walk, go for a drink somewhere or whatever. Yeah, sure, sis. So we go into the casino, and in 45 minutes I win $5,200 in the casino. And it just happened. I went from one machine, one went to the next machine, one and went to the next machine, and won $5,000 more. It was just crazy. And it was just really weird how it happened.
SPEAKER_06Kim immediately texts Andre, who she's been messaging with the whole time. You won't believe this, but I just won $5,000.
SPEAKER_03No fucking way! That's insane! The universe is rewarding you for being so amazing.
SPEAKER_06Kim calls a bunch of family members to tell them the breaking news and makes her way back to the hotel. As soon as she finishes speaking to the reception to arrange for a safe to store her winnings, she receives a call from Andre.
SPEAKER_03Hi.
SPEAKER_08Where are you? I thought you were at your hostel.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I was going to surprise you. I'm getting on the train heading back to you, if that's okay, of course.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, meet me at the Hard Rock Cafe. I'll be finished having dinner with my brother by the time you get here.
SPEAKER_03I can't wait to see you.
SPEAKER_06Kim books Andre a separate room, and a few hours later, he meets her at the Hard Rock for drinks.
SPEAKER_03You know, I haven't stopped thinking about you since I left the falls. Your mind is so brilliant. I've been buzzing from the energy of our conversations. I know this probably sounds insane, but I'm falling for you. I think I'm falling in love with you. You don't have to say anything. I know it's complicated for you.
SPEAKER_08Thanks for saying those things.
SPEAKER_03I mean them. Every word. Okay. Crazy question. If you're not nursing and you're in your new career, could you do it from a laptop on a sailboat?
SPEAKER_08Uh yeah, I could probably do it from anywhere. Why?
SPEAKER_03Remember I mentioned that I just bought a sailboat? I have to go to the Caribbean next month to register it. You should come with me. We can sail all over the south, from the Caribbeans all the way to Argentina.
SPEAKER_08But how would we get it across the canal?
SPEAKER_03Oh, you know about sailing in the south?
SPEAKER_08A little.
SPEAKER_03I'm getting all the paperwork together. It's definitely a pain in the ass, but I've already got the line handlers organized and all that.
SPEAKER_08From what I hear, it's super complicated.
SPEAKER_03Look, if to get you on that boat I need to buy you out of your mortgage, I'd love to do that for you. There I go. I know too much, too much.
SPEAKER_08Why don't we just focus on tonight? There's live music down the street.
SPEAKER_06Kim and Andre go for drinks and dancing. That night they have sex for the first time. For the next couple of days after that, they're attached at the hip. But Andre is growing frustrated that his wallet situation hasn't been resolved.
SPEAKER_03Can you believe how long this process is taking? The bank said everything would be resolved by now. I'm about to lose it. If I could get to Singapore, I could get this sorted right away. I'm just sitting on my hands here. But how the hell am I going to get to Singapore?
SPEAKER_08I can lend you the money for the time being if you need it. I know you're good for it.
SPEAKER_03You don't have to do that.
SPEAKER_08I want to. Look, I won the 5k anyway. It's fine. Let me lend you the money.
SPEAKER_03Okay, thank you. Thank you. You're amazing.
SPEAKER_06Andre gets back to Toronto with the intention of flying out to Singapore through Vietnam. Kim enjoys herself for a few more days with her family and eventually gets on the train to head back to BC. She and Andre are texting back and forth.
SPEAKER_03Babe, there are no flights here that go to Asia without a connecting flight in the States. I can't get to the States because I have a DUI from the time I took the fall for my ex. Long story. I can't get a flight out from Montreal. Can you help me get a bus ticket to Montreal?
SPEAKER_08Sure. I'll buy it and we'll email you the e-ticket.
SPEAKER_03You're too good to me. I can't wait until I can hold you again.
SPEAKER_06On our way back home, Kim stops over in Edmonton to visit some family. She gets another text from Andre.
SPEAKER_03Hey sweets, I'm in Montreal now. I got the plane tickets, thanks to you, but I realized I still need to get a visa for Vietnam.
SPEAKER_06At this point, alarm bells are going off. Here's the real Kim again.
SPEAKER_09I looked online as I was talking to him because I was like, this is getting out of control. And sure enough, he gave me the exact amount of what it would cost him to get a new visa out of Vietnam. I look I was on the computer looking. So I sent him the money for that.
SPEAKER_06Kim transfers him the money. Since he doesn't have a Canadian account, Andre provides her with the banking details of a friend he knows in Montreal.
SPEAKER_09I had some doubt about what was happening, but I did. I his stories were convincing, and it was it was when I got back to the island, finally back to where I live, that he was requesting more and more money, and I finally I think he I just kind of picked up on it and I knew that something wasn't right. And then he had messaged me saying it right now he was on a bike between um Vietnam to Singapore. And then I didn't hear from him again.
SPEAKER_06The next time Kim tries to message him, his account doesn't exist. His phone numbers are not in service, he completely disappears. All in, he got just over seven thousand dollars of her money. But for Kim, much like for Andrea, it's about so much more than just the money. The whole situation made her doubt that the person she thought she was.
SPEAKER_09I woke up at six o'clock in the morning sobbing. Like I woke up from a dream and I knew what had happened. Like I just knew that I had been taken. Then it was going through everything at home. I felt so dumb, I felt so stupid. I was like, what the hell is wrong with me? This is not my character, none of it's my character. Um, like stepping out from the marriage or anything like that. That's that's not who I am. I felt really violated.
SPEAKER_06Kim has always considered herself a good judge of character. So the situation shook her to her core.
SPEAKER_09I've got a couple of close friends I chatted with about it. And I said I felt like I was brought into a cult, and I feel like my I was brainwashed. It was the weirdest thing. I came back, my friends didn't recognize my personality and my energy. It was like somebody had dropped me into a war zone or something. Like I was like, what the hell just happened? Where am I? I've never been in that space before.
SPEAKER_06Kim decides to call Kathy since she's the only other person who met Andre firsthand. Here's Kathy.
SPEAKER_01When she was back in Victoria, we spoke several times. And those those phone calls were difficult because this was when she was starting to put it all together and she's starting to convince me. And now we're kind of starting to look backwards and seeing things we didn't see. And she would recognize something, and then you know, she'd call me and she'd say, Did you see that? Like, do you is you know, was that did you believe that? Just I guess to sort of get herself to a place where if I saw it, did someone else, because then it would legitimize her suspicions. And it was hard to talk to her because she was very at that time, everything was on the QT and she was still at home with her husband, and you know, there were very quiet phone calls and whatnot.
SPEAKER_06Over the next few days, Kim tells her husband what happened. She feels awful. Although their romantic relationship had been over for years, she still loves him and doesn't want to hurt him. While this does put further strain on their marriage, there is a sense of relief in coming clean. Quickly, her sadness turns into determination.
SPEAKER_09I've never been a victim in the past. Like anything that's happened to me, I sort of want to overcome and conquer. But this was like something completely new for me. So I ended up going on this road of becoming a detective, learning about how I could reverse engineer social media, how I could find new people. And um, I even got a burner phone. And I just went on this path that I knew that I had to be unstoppable.
SPEAKER_06One morning, she gets a call from Kathy, a major development.
SPEAKER_01I found the Facebook page, the MA Venture. And that was the thing that tipped it over because there was the comments, and someone had posted underneath it that he was a con man and that it was a lie.
SPEAKER_06Kim decides to pursue the lead, but she feels uneasy about it.
SPEAKER_09So I was concerned because the timeline was pretty close to mine. So I thought, is he still with this woman? Is was this just a play and that he's with her? I decide to message the man and I said, Hey, I think we have a mutual person of interest. Are you willing to take a call from me? I have some questions. I see that you know somebody by the name of Jody Lynn. I said, Is he still with her? Because what I'm concerned about is that she's in danger.
SPEAKER_06She sets up a phone call with the person who commented. Leading up to the conversation, she has some time to reflect on how her own relationship with Andre progressed. What did she miss? Everything he said seemed so real. Take, for instance, the wallet situation. I asked her why that seemed so believable.
SPEAKER_09The reason why I really believed that he lost his wallet because a couple hours prior to him telling me this, he actually was showing me his license out of his wallet. He pulled his license out of his wallet and said, Look at this horrible picture of me. Isn't this a horrible picture? And I'm like, I looked at it and I remember saying to him, It looks like you. I said, It looks fine. And he's like, Oh, huh, and put it back in.
SPEAKER_06And his commitment to the lie was so deep and detailed.
SPEAKER_09It was eerie. And at the front desk of the hotel that I stayed at, he I got him a room at too. The whole time he was going down at the front desk two to three times a day, saying, Have you got a package yet? I'm expecting a package from HSBC and Tangerine. Those were the two banks he spoke of that they're sending me all my credit cards and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_06Kathy agrees.
SPEAKER_01He is an absolute master. The confidence, the charisma, the charm, that the things he says, the order in which he says things, like he gets further and further and further and further into the personal information. He he could teach a masterclass on being a con man. He is an artist.
SPEAKER_06She feels terribly for Kim because Andre took advantage of her at a difficult juncture in her life.
SPEAKER_01I was pissed off. I was pissed off for her because I knew she was vulnerable. I knew she was emotionally upset about her husband. Sleeping with a total stranger is a big decision. Being that intimate with somebody, I was angry for her, and I was I was angry at myself for being duped. Even though he did nothing to me, I was mad at myself for believing everything he said.
SPEAKER_06To make things even more stressful, Kim is getting angry emails from the woman who she transferred money to when Andre was in Montreal.
SPEAKER_09She got a hold of me later and she said she reported him because he emptied her bank account from the e-transfer, and so she thought I was part of the the con or the or the money taken out.
SPEAKER_06Kim learns that the woman met Andre because she was also headed to Southeast Asia. That's how they got to chatting in the first place. She tries to convince the woman that she's also a victim, but doesn't hear from her after that. She decides it's time to get the law involved. Since the train is where she met him, Kim decides to file a report with the Via Rail Security Bureau first. It doesn't go very far.
SPEAKER_09And so the the head of security actually told me he worked for the Ottawa police for 30 years. So when I told him my story, it wasn't that he was non-compassionate, but it was kind of like, well, good luck with that. That's not gonna happen. It's only this amount of money. Next, she goes to the police. My police officer listened to me, but again, it was we don't have enough evidence, it's against you, against him. But it was almost like it was kind of put to the side.
SPEAKER_06Similar to what happened in Andrea's case, the officer tells her there's not enough there for a warrant. Here's Kathy on Kim's experience with the police.
SPEAKER_01I think that the way that the police handle these types of cases is horrific. I've seen, you know, documentaries and things on television about other women that have been through this that get no help at all. It's a crime. It's a crime on all levels. You're violating someone, you're violating their emotions and their finances. And I don't want to say it's a man-woman thing that because the majority of police are men, that they won't legitimize it because it's it's like rape, right? Oh, I got raped. Well, what were you wearing? Or a police visit, well, I got I got ripped off for all this money. Well, you know, did you sleep with them? And and I think the police view of it is that if you've lost money, some transaction had to happen and you did that willingly. And I think that's where it stops with them.
SPEAKER_06Kim is now adamant that the system needs to change. She's on a mission.
SPEAKER_09I think there's just so many other people out there that are have gone through this or going through this, and there's just so much shame and blame that happens, and we need to really like collectively understand that this can happen to anybody. I never would have thought in a million years something like this would happen to me. I would have never thought in a million years that my marriage would be affected in the way it it has been. I think it's really important for people to like not point the finger and and you know, blame the person and say, well, you're stupid. Like, how could you not know? And I didn't know, you know, and it happened. And I think it's important to show that there's all these loopholes within the bank, within um transport that allow criminals to be able to do this, and that the way that the legal system is set up across Canada, there's not a collaboration, and people like Andre get to go and wreck havoc on people's lives and get away with it.
SPEAKER_06Kim eventually has her call with the man who commented on the Facebook post Andre made about visiting his love, Jody Lynn. What she finds out is devastating. On the next episode of Catch Em If You Can.
SPEAKER_05So I went and got a bunch of groceries, got up to the till, went to pay, my the card was declined. And I'm like, what is going on? So then I tried my other card, that was declined. I tried my credit card that was linked. I only had my business credit card on me, so I tried that. That was declined. I'm like, what is happening? Like every single account was overdrawn. Every account. I have been through a couple constables, a sergeant, a lieutenant, a corporal. I'm getting nowhere.
SPEAKER_09Nowhere. And at that point, we knew that it was gonna be us that were gonna have to lead the investigation and be able to get some traction on this case in order to find Andre and get him.
SPEAKER_06Catch 'em If You Can is created and produced by Pink Moon Studio in partnership with Frequency Podcast Network. It's written and reported by me, your host, Amelia King, and Maggie Reed. Evan King is our post production supervisor. Chris Rennick is our editor. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at Catch Em Pod.